The Discipline and Punish Podcast

#6 - Can a police officer use Jiu-Jitsu to control a larger suspect? – Evandro Nunes

May 11, 2020 Thomas Baker Season 1 Episode 6
The Discipline and Punish Podcast
#6 - Can a police officer use Jiu-Jitsu to control a larger suspect? – Evandro Nunes
Show Notes Transcript

On this episode, World Class Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competitor and police trainer Evandro Nunes tells us about the state of police defensive tactics training in the United States. We also talk about the importance managing time and distance in a fight and how to improve public trust in policing.

Evandro Nunes earned his Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) black belt under Márcio Barão. As a competitor, Evandro has won metals at the World No-Gi Championship, the Pan American Championship, the Abu Dhabi Grand Slam, and the American Nationals; all his wins have come via submission. Currently, he is the lead instructor for Gracie Survival Tactics, a defensive tactics training program for police officers. When he isn’t traveling around the world training police officers, Evandro continues to compete in BJJ and is also a professional MMA fighter.

Tom Baker has been a PhD student in UMSL's Criminology and Criminal Justice program since 2017. Tom received his BA in Political Science from Arizona State University and worked as a police officer for approximately nine years. His research interests include police culture, use of force, and qualitative research methods.

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Tom Baker: Alright, hey, thanks for taking the time to join me today. It's great to see you again. Can you just just so everyone knows who you are. Can you tell us your name and what you do for a living.

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Evandro Nunes: Of course. Thank you, Tom, for having me here. And my name is Yvonne ruinous

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Evandro Nunes: I trained Jiu Jitsu you know for 1516 years now. And currently, I am the lead instructor of the gray survival tactics program that we have agreed to diversity.

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Evandro Nunes: Which is responsible for teaching defensive tactics instructors to shares your jitsu in defensive tactics with the department. So we're responsible for, let's say over 1000 officers certified by us per year. And we've been doing that for the last 25 years

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Tom Baker: Okay, so you train police officers who trained police officers and defensive tactics.

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Evandro Nunes: Exactly.

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Tom Baker: To integrate Jiu Jitsu techniques into their defensive tactics training, can you

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Evandro Nunes: Tell us.

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Tom Baker: So what led you to study jujitsu in the first place, you said about 15 years ago what what led you to study jujitsu

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Evandro Nunes: Yes, I'm from Brazil and Brazil. It's a very interesting place society works very different over there when they when the sense them. The police

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Evandro Nunes: Is there to help society. But there's a lot of street fights and conflicts on the streets that the civilian himself or herself has to do with

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Evandro Nunes: Therefore, I was exposed to a lot of street fights when I was younger and learning on the street fight on the streets.

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Evandro Nunes: And just realizing that even though I was fighting for what was right there were, I was still losing some fights. And I was like, man.

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Evandro Nunes: It doesn't make sense. If I like, you know, if I do what is right. I should win. That was really my mind. But then that was not how it happens.

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Evandro Nunes: And I realized that I have to learn how to defend myself. So I started training Valley today, which is the old MMA

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Evandro Nunes: And then with that I got introduced to jujitsu, which is a very effective martial arts and because I was younger and weaker than everyone else that I knew.

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Evandro Nunes: It was working for me. So effectively, that I started a devoted devoting only in specifically choose jujitsu and I trained forever. And here I am now in America, doing what I love.

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Tom Baker: So I everyone I everyone I've talked to is either an expert in their field or becoming

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Tom Baker: An expert in their field and I wanted to speak with you because you're an expert and you learned this over 15 years like

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Tom Baker: Just so people have an idea of how much time you devote so in the peak of your competing years, how many hours per week, would you spend either thinking about jujitsu watching Jiu Jitsu training Jiu Jitsu

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Evandro Nunes: As a good question.

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Evandro Nunes: Dumb I cannot answer that question. There's no amount of hours, you know, it's like it's the, the University of jujitsu that I subscribed, which is

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Evandro Nunes: love and passion through learning, it's it's every time, every second, every day because you know I'm training.

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Evandro Nunes: Or I was resting from the training thinking about a training and then calling my friends and asking and talking about it or training or I'll actually fighting the street so

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Evandro Nunes: It's almost it's hard to quantify and i i believe that that's where

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Evandro Nunes: When it's almost an obsession over something that just consumes your life because that's what you're doing and you wake up. Oh, here we go. Just

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Evandro Nunes: You know, and then when you're not doing those things in the beginning, you kind of more learning, but then later start teaching. So you add that you're sharing

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Evandro Nunes: With others which also enhances your learning. So it's just you know 15 years off of fashion towards you know, learn how to defend myself and how to teach other people to do the same thing.

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Tom Baker: And you were raised in a lineage. So, and that for academics, they, they learn from from professors and they trace that back. You do the same and jujitsu correct

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Tom Baker: Who would you, who would you attribute your learning to

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Evandro Nunes: jujitsu

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Evandro Nunes: Very briefly, a little bit of the story is that he is born in India writers old

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Evandro Nunes: Texts about how the orders martial arts came from India and in Japan and then eventually to Brazil In Brazil Jiu Jitsu it was introduced to the Gracie family.

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Evandro Nunes: And an endo Gracie and Carlos Gracie were responsible for modifying the old

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Evandro Nunes: Known as Japanese jujitsu to what we call nowadays Bruce energy to our Gracie Jiu Jitsu so the Gracie family is responsible for that revolution and for also disseminating Jiu Jitsu with the whole planet. So I learned in Brazil under one of the family members.

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Evandro Nunes: Called high end Gracie. And then from there I came to America. And now I train under the grand sons

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Evandro Nunes: Of integration himself, which is you don't get a cn n or Gracie. They are the ones that you know I learned the most nowadays. And then that's that's the line. The Destin quick land is very close, close to the route. That's possible. There's no economic closure.

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Tom Baker: Okay, so, so you have this law these long years of training you you can trace your lineage back through this for this family.

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Tom Baker: And then, yes, what you do is tested. So you have to test this and competition. Can you talk a little bit of maybe some of the types of competitions where you've tested your, your skills that you've developed over these years.

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Evandro Nunes: Yes, so

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Evandro Nunes: What I can say is that the true test of the martial art of Jiu Jitsu it comes from your ability to defend yourself without fighting

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Evandro Nunes: That would be the transcended way of thinking it right just once you have the ability to have so much confidence in yourself.

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Evandro Nunes: And you're still able to find someone they don't even need to fight and things can be escalated with verbal and just patience and forgiveness. That's the test that I would like to touch first but you more.

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Evandro Nunes: Physical or regress bubble or a way that is easier for people to grasp, I should say.

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Evandro Nunes: Is true tournament, and I mean I completed my whole life in Brazil, which is tough tournament and just every week. Oh, to compete and succeed in

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Evandro Nunes: Most of them lose some of them, of course, and then I came to United States. I started competing on American nationals and word tournament's and Gino ghee and I'm some special private events that back in the days where Mr. Maurice or API.

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Evandro Nunes: Just some, you know, invited only events that people would invite like 12 people all over the planet. So that would be you know that the

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Evandro Nunes: The line of proving myself to society that I'm good at jujitsu local tournaments in Brazil national tournament in Brazil national tournament in America word tournament in America, and then it became would be the private pay per view invited only tournament staff. We got invited you.

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Tom Baker: Okay. And, and I just wanted to like for people who aren't familiar with, with what you do. There's really nowhere to hide you you learn these skills and it is what it is. Either you, you can do it or you can't

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Evandro Nunes: Yes, that's the beauty of your sheets and there's no lying on the mat. There's no, I'm good. Because of this, and then you can do verb. Now, at the end of the day.

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Evandro Nunes: You grapple someone and something will happen and you should keep people honest and keep the people humbled because there's no way that you you

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Evandro Nunes: You do a Lucky Strike or lucky submission know if someone is better than you. They going to dominate you until the day that you you click them and it's it's a beautiful game to play. And it's a beautiful humble martial art.

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Tom Baker: And so what was it that brought you so you began and develop your skills in Brazil. What was it that brought you to the US.

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Evandro Nunes: Probably to America. Tom is the curiosity to know something beyond what I knew. So I remember

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Evandro Nunes: My friends watching videos on the mat. Why we would train and they would say, look at this word champions right here. They're so good and

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Evandro Nunes: Show me the Venus and I'll look at those read the storm, and I would not be dressed. I was like, man, I think I can do that.

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Evandro Nunes: But instead of saying that I submit, I want to go there, find those people and see how it is. And out of curiosity, just to touch more people in to expose my

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Evandro Nunes: My ability to grapple with you with more people just want to see. I want to own a leave that. And then I came in and I happen to be successful in that field and then

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Evandro Nunes: I loved how America Works regarding society. It's a fair society. It's a free society. There's a lot that you know arguably Americans say that they have to improve

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Evandro Nunes: But in comparison to other countries or to Brazil specifically where it came from.

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Evandro Nunes: It's a whole different planets, the way the society works and opportunity and the freedom and you should work more you receive more and it's safe.

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Evandro Nunes: You know, and of course we can always argue that there's some place that are dangerous. I get it. But overall it's a free safe place that I'm very grateful and happy to be part of these countries, amazing.

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Tom Baker: And I remember you. You talking about that, like being coming to the United States and feeling this like

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Tom Baker: Yeah, sure. Can you talk a little bit about about that pressure

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Tom Baker: Like being safety like like the feeling of not having to necessarily watch your back.

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Evandro Nunes: Yes, they started that I that I think I told you is that when I was 23 years old I was 23 when it came to America for the first time.

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Evandro Nunes: And then I was in Miami for the tournament's called a DCC. I was training, actually, a friend of mine that he was prepared for it.

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Evandro Nunes: And then he came to me and he said, If I wonder what's your favorite thing about this country and for the first time that I really sat them that question like, man.

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Evandro Nunes: I don't know. Let me think. And then I realized that, for the first time in my life in 23 years I was not afraid of being robbed.

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Evandro Nunes: Any Brazil, and I was not from the, from the worst place in Brazil is very much middle class. My mom was working hard. My dad used to provide for us, you know, very like hustle.

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Evandro Nunes: But still we always watching over your object over your back. Everything is it's like a little jungle, you know, so like survival of the fittest, and if you don't pay attention. You're gonna dance.

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Evandro Nunes: So I was like, man I feel safe in that clicking the realization of gratitude to Smith. I'm not afraid. You know imminent threat and that you, as you can imagine, can boost the quality of life of one person tremendously. And that's the irony, right, because the very the

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Evandro Nunes: Very thing that fascinates about America, which is safe. It's not money. It's not the opportunities, even though those things are amazing. It's the safety aspect of it which is

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Evandro Nunes: Why connects back so much to what we do, which is I'm giving jujitsu back to life force mid officers, which I did very people that keep me and everyone else safe because we noticed that there's a gap in their training.

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Evandro Nunes: You know that it can improve on. And it's just so fulfilling to give back to, to the very thing that I appreciate about this country.

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Tom Baker: And you talk about this.

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Tom Baker: The safety is. Did that play a role, and will actually back that up. I just, just to make a comment. I think that's something that people take for granted.

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Tom Baker: Especially people who live in safe countries like we don't really think about the fact that the, oh, we could be unsafe. So I appreciated that.

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Tom Baker: Yes, reminded me that I quite often everywhere I go, I feel

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Tom Baker: Safe and so I appreciate

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Evandro Nunes: That yeah it

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Tom Baker: Did that play a role in why you decided to want to train police officers or was there some other reason. What made you decide you wanted to train police officers specifically

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Evandro Nunes: That I can for sure, said that that was part of it. That's why I'm saying it's so fulfilling for me to to do what I do.

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Evandro Nunes: And but that was not a conscious decision. What would naturally happened was that there's. We have a great university programs for kids.

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Evandro Nunes: And then a little older kids than adult woman's only self defense. We have all kinds of programs. So once I mastered those programs. There's one specific program, which is the Gracie survival tactics that we refresh GST, excuse me.

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Evandro Nunes: That we refer as GST that only the Gracie family was teaching, which is here. Don't hide them back back the days and then he will enhance it. So it's a very protected.

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Evandro Nunes: Program, because it's so important. So it's so close to the source that they were not opening there was no opening for people from outside to teach that that curriculum.

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Evandro Nunes: So I was the first person that was trusted with that curriculum to share Jesus with my forsman and I believe that the reason why is because

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Evandro Nunes: It's high to two distinct what led me here because it's a it's the group or the the collective of me being grateful in this country.

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Evandro Nunes: Feeling, you know, being an expert on what I do. Being eager to learn the teaching methodology and the

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Evandro Nunes: Way in the lingo of law enforcement officers having that certain a certain kind of

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Evandro Nunes: Not like when we go to teach officers. I'm not teaching officers. I'm not you know that's not the spirit, the spirit is like, man, I'm here with you guys. I'm so stoked.

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Evandro Nunes: That delight forsman community open a little window for us to share what what we

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Evandro Nunes: What's changed our lives. So that project. So it's so unique and come from such a beautiful place of really to give

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Evandro Nunes: Whatever it is, it's almost like there's we don't go there and say, hey, here learned this from us because we're the best of it. No, we got it. So guys, we are very good at time me and fighting

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Evandro Nunes: And manipulating bodies and controlling people on the floor to gain compliance from them. Let me show you what I have whatever suits you. You can take

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Evandro Nunes: And whatever does not suit your because he at the end of the day, Tom, did the experts, they know better for their profession, will we work for them. My own

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Evandro Nunes: Mission is to expose them for more options so they can do the decision making and choose what's best for them. You see, so it's about exposing them.

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Evandro Nunes: For what is for for more options. Instead of saying them what you're doing. That's not experience. Who am I, you see. So it's a whole the whole collective of it. And I think that the period or the sentence in the signature.

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Evandro Nunes: Is the gratitude that I have towards being safe in this country and giving back to those that makes it and then allows us to be safe and like I said so. So save that we forget how dangerous life can actually be

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Evandro Nunes: Even though there's this kind of

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Evandro Nunes: There's a little

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Evandro Nunes: Energy between community and law enforcement officers because of, you know, just kind of do a tree and some misinterpretations as naturally happening any kind of relationship, but that people are so safe that they forget how dangerous it can be, which is pretty cool. What

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Tom Baker: You just talked about giving officers tools to choose from. Can you talk a little bit. So you've trained officers all over the United States.

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Tom Baker: Yes, for several years you've been exposed to what they can what they bring to the table. Can you talk a little bit

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Evandro Nunes: About

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Tom Baker: What would like, what is it a typical officer who doesn't have this extra training get from their department and the average

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Tom Baker: QUESTION. WHO DOESN'T IT. WHAT DO THEY, what do you, what would you expect them to know in terms of defensive types because we all assume that, oh, police officers. They know how to fight, they're trained to

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Tom Baker: Yeah, people what what type of skills does a typical officer have

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Evandro Nunes: Great question to them. And it's important that we say that 100% I'm pitching officers all over United States.

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Evandro Nunes: But just for for for the data to be out there officers comes from outside the country as well because we're programming so well recognized, they'll have officers from Africa, Switzerland, like Europe anywhere, people just come and learn from us and to answer your question.

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Evandro Nunes: Is not only to talk about officers in America stuck about all the officer that getting contact with

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Evandro Nunes: In the kind of training that they received, like you mentioned that society expects them to be like ninjas and FBI guys and black belts just people so well trained

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Evandro Nunes: That all they do is to train defensive tactics and be ready for society. But unfortunately, that's not the reality TV, my experience, and experience that

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Evandro Nunes: I collect from the people that we touch is that they have very limited amount of hours for training defensive decades, a year. Some people to have one hour. Some people have the four hours of defensive decades per year.

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Evandro Nunes: And then means not only jujitsu and ground fighting. That means defensive tackle as a whole, standing up is strategies to talk to someone inside the vehicle.

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Evandro Nunes: Duty belt training at all. They kind of training. So it's not them led training.

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Evandro Nunes: It's surprisingly low training that has some departments that it had eight hours. There's some parts that have like a weekly thing. But those are rare.

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Evandro Nunes: The majority of it is that he grabbed a group of recruits they pour some information at them and then say, Okay, you know, make the best out of it and go, because the deployment of

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Evandro Nunes: The monetary deployment to this kind of training. It's not the most. It's not the biggest and not only that some people that have a little bit of time there. Most of the times are sometimes

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Evandro Nunes: Learning martial arts or a way that is not the most effective, not to say that is bad. There's some

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Evandro Nunes: Know described my god there's striking arts. There's pressure points. There's a lot of strategies you know enforcement that are very important to have

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Evandro Nunes: The thing is that once they learn like a certain because they have a little bit of a lot of time only at their disposal.

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Evandro Nunes: And they learned that with most of the time. Some violence and some strategies that a little more escalated and escalated that something is not as YouTube, you can be, you know, and it can be detrimental.

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Tom Baker: It can be

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Evandro Nunes: It can cause the reality we have to do.

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Tom Baker: If all you're taught is a very short period of time, and it's like punching and hitting with a baton.

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Tom Baker: Yeah.

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Evandro Nunes: Then that's

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Tom Baker: That's what you're gonna do look so so yeah if you if you have somebody. So you've seen lots of people who have not had any kind of not had much training.

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Tom Baker: Put in a situation under control where they need to where they where they fight what. So if I have no training.

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Tom Baker: And I become involved in a physical altercation, even if it's simulated what what are some of the things that people do with no training. Like, how do they behave when they have to fight.

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Evandro Nunes: I understand it's across the board, law enforcement officers are not any human being, though we find themselves in a in a fighting situation, even in training, like I mentioned, Hispanic is abrupt quick movements based on strength and explosion.

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Evandro Nunes: In and that behavior. It's a very instinctual behavior that would have just to get out of the discomfort with what happens with that is that if you have enough explosion in within many if you have more power than the other person. You might succeed.

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Evandro Nunes: The problem with that is that when the other person is bigger, or maybe you are already a little tired during the fight an explosion potential is not as

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Evandro Nunes: Abrupt now you exploding and your energy and that's what happened across the board, like I've mentioned people fight and they try to figure out a way to escape with no plan.

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Evandro Nunes: Which results in exhaustion, which in a street fight be exhausted completely depleted of energy is the same as being knocked out unconscious, your brain doesn't work properly. You cannot move and you're just kind of helpless.

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Evandro Nunes: So even though people people very much respect being knocked out last thing we wanted to fight. I agree. But the other thing that we want to avoid at all costs is complete exhaustion.

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Evandro Nunes: So what we show officers is how to gravitate from chaos and panic to a certain survivability.

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Evandro Nunes: Not just say that it will become masters of Jiu Jitsu and be able to hold someone our choke anyone out know the the preposition is man, I want to give them officers.

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Evandro Nunes: I want to give officers tools so they can keep their energy within themselves, stay safe. Why the suspect or the other person burn their energy, Tom.

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Evandro Nunes: Because at the same time that in a fight the people panic on the defensive side on the offensive side. People don't behave much different.

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Evandro Nunes: They're also panicking, but they happy to be successful because they have more exposure more power. So all I have to do. Someone is trying to breaking into my house, let's say, let's use that analogy. It's not to go outside and beat them up. All I have to do is to prevent

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Evandro Nunes: Injury my shelf protection and because they try so hide the burnouts and once they burned out, I can now get up and run from that person or

00:21:11.250 --> 00:21:18.750
Evandro Nunes: That from a student perspective right just disengage where to find us revive or for the officer chief question, do that. And these engagements revived, but also to

00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:27.960
Evandro Nunes: Find a window of opportunity to show them to do handcuff put me in the patrol car and they take them into custody which there'll be the the end goal.

00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:30.840
Evandro Nunes: Was that clear that eight years.

00:21:31.410 --> 00:21:42.210
Tom Baker: Absolutely, and I know this is one thing that I noticed with a lot of police training is that the goal is to affect an arrest as quickly as possible, but

00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.050
Evandro Nunes: Yes, you.

00:21:43.410 --> 00:21:51.900
Tom Baker: You guys were teaching a little differently than that. That time can time beyond the officer side is it can it be

00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:52.860
Evandro Nunes: In a great question.

00:21:53.310 --> 00:21:57.300
Tom Baker: You talked about a little bit about maybe allowing things to take a little longer.

00:21:57.750 --> 00:22:05.970
Tom Baker: And and. Yes, you heard the term windows of opportunity for compliance rather than demanding compliance.

00:22:05.970 --> 00:22:07.350
Evandro Nunes: Progress. We can talk about that.

00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:09.330
Tom Baker: Can you talk a little bit

00:22:09.570 --> 00:22:11.970
Evandro Nunes: Though yes so

00:22:13.110 --> 00:22:14.400
Evandro Nunes: The understanding that

00:22:15.510 --> 00:22:16.920
Evandro Nunes: When two people are fighting

00:22:18.330 --> 00:22:22.200
Evandro Nunes: Because there's a fear of losing the fight and being knocked out.

00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:28.140
Evandro Nunes: People want to finish the fight, the sooner the better. Like, as soon as possible.

00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:39.870
Evandro Nunes: And that goes to civilians in humans, but law enforcement as well because they want to cuff and notify the threat the quick as possible and I completely understand that mindset.

00:22:41.310 --> 00:22:45.180
Evandro Nunes: But we have to, to understand what that brings to the table.

00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:51.000
Evandro Nunes: And if I'm finding an NFL player for him. I like 200 pounds 210 pounds right I'm

00:22:52.140 --> 00:23:03.150
Evandro Nunes: A good size human being six foot five but imagine I'm fighting a person that is my size, but it's NFL player and then it's like 300 pounds muscle right

00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:12.990
Evandro Nunes: And that could be these equations that describe or can be you and that you I mean are you totally could be could be any every size human being with someone, bigger, there's always someone bigger than you out there.

00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:17.160
Evandro Nunes: If, when I see that that the bigger person than me.

00:23:19.860 --> 00:23:30.750
Evandro Nunes: At the first 10 seconds of a fight that person is is like full of power and energy. So what's going to happen is that we're going to collider energies and whoever has the most will succeed. Like we mentioned before.

00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:40.170
Evandro Nunes: And went with officers, they have sometimes two officers. So we have two people against one and they have the same mindset. Let's notify us right now.

00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:44.010
Evandro Nunes: And there's some times because because you're fighting like that you have a

00:23:44.280 --> 00:23:56.760
Evandro Nunes: Less less awareness of your energy expenditure and what's actually happening in the fights. So what happens is sometimes officer lose their balance and the suspects gets up maybe goes on top of the after to hear them. Maybe they stand up. Go inside a

00:23:57.270 --> 00:24:06.540
Evandro Nunes: Car and run away. Maybe sometimes they're going to send a card. Grab a gun and you start utilizing. You see, because I'm finding this person is bigger than me with a mindset that I want to

00:24:06.870 --> 00:24:15.120
Evandro Nunes: Show you. Who is the person in charge. I don't want to go through right now I'm fighting them in a blazing which they're ready to fight me

00:24:16.050 --> 00:24:28.350
Evandro Nunes: So what we suggest is that once you find yourself in a scuffle. Your goal is not you ring by subduing them and by submitting them. You're going to win by exhausting them.

00:24:30.060 --> 00:24:33.510
Evandro Nunes: And exhaustion is a byproduct of time.

00:24:35.190 --> 00:24:39.720
Evandro Nunes: I the, I don't care who you are, you are going to be able to fight grades for 30 seconds.

00:24:40.560 --> 00:24:50.220
Evandro Nunes: You have 30 seconds and within you. But after 30 seconds 35 seconds 15 seconds. They start slowing down. And that happens with every one, Tom.

00:24:50.550 --> 00:25:00.690
Evandro Nunes: It's across the board is a human behavior people give it all and they stop and there's some people rest and then he gave it all again. But the second explosion is weakening the first one.

00:25:01.110 --> 00:25:09.540
Evandro Nunes: There for the third explosion is weekend in a second one and exponentially, so much that we have something called that 102nd rule.

00:25:11.100 --> 00:25:20.580
Evandro Nunes: It's in the mindset that before handcuffing the suspect, Tom. We suggest that officers hold them down for at least 100 seconds.

00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:28.710
Evandro Nunes: Because what we know experience in fighting in the streets and fighting tournaments and fighting MMA, we know that as time goes by.

00:25:29.340 --> 00:25:32.910
Evandro Nunes: People get more exhausted, therefore, to get easier to be hand cup.

00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:42.810
Evandro Nunes: So we feel really want to hincapie someone Tom, I want to him after after 100 seconds and not in the first 10 seconds because of the first or second when I grab your risk you're gonna

00:25:43.410 --> 00:25:53.520
Evandro Nunes: You're gonna you're gonna promise you're going to pull you to do crazy things on me. But after one of the seconds. Your spirit is a little demoralize in your

00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:06.180
Evandro Nunes: Ability to fight his last therefore I'm easier to use easier to be tough, but I can only wait. Tom, I can only empower people to have this mindset of waiting the fights once they know what you do, because you

00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:11.010
Evandro Nunes: Don't know what you're doing. You might have repented, you have a better chance than just you're doing it.

00:26:11.850 --> 00:26:20.190
Evandro Nunes: Now once you have defensive tactics training and once you have the, the, the structure, the GST gives you you you have basic tools. It's not that hard.

00:26:20.550 --> 00:26:32.880
Evandro Nunes: To hold someone that doesn't know your face. People have this misconception, Tom. They need to be a black belt to learn how to fight and to defend yourself. That is not true. You need to be a black belt to defend yourself against the black belt.

00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:41.340
Evandro Nunes: But in order to defend yourself against someone that doesn't know anything, just a crazy person on the street that's fighting for your life. You only have to do is to know a little bit more than them.

00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:46.320
Evandro Nunes: You see in specially to have this mindset, man. I have another it'll be more than them.

00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:53.880
Evandro Nunes: I'm going to zoom in and control. I'm not trying to accomplish anything but you're still alive and to save my energy because I know that they're born in their energy and effectively.

00:26:54.420 --> 00:27:00.540
Evandro Nunes: It's a matter of who managed their energy battery. It's not a manager of who cause more damage. Isn't that interesting.

00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:07.530
Evandro Nunes: That we find to be amusing, they're standing on law enforcement that, you know, they go they arrive at the scene.

00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:21.510
Evandro Nunes: You know, and then rightfully so they want to notify the threat quicker because they don't want that to go to go crazy, but by attempting to notify quicker, you actually are contributing for a crazier fights.

00:27:22.800 --> 00:27:33.120
Evandro Nunes: Why the behavior of approaching like holding down being the person on the wall or the floor just preventing your duty belt from being touch no weapon grabbing just weapon retention techniques, just

00:27:33.540 --> 00:27:40.410
Evandro Nunes: His mother ringing the person with control and effectiveness and then they burn out. And then you talk to them. So hey, my friend. Here we are.

00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:53.460
Evandro Nunes: No strikes know excessive use of force know early or premature access for the duty belt just trade up control and newly find a threat and modifying the

00:27:54.210 --> 00:28:02.100
Evandro Nunes: The danger, and that's what we want them to find the danger for themselves, because I suspect most of the times, they're not only a threat to her daughter and for others, Ross boss for themselves.

00:28:02.550 --> 00:28:10.560
Evandro Nunes: And they will only find the transfer the officer, which is our main goal. So the officer knows a little bit so they can notify the threat hincapie the person in the right time.

00:28:11.040 --> 00:28:17.730
Evandro Nunes: Which is like you said, there's a certain window that has been official and then go back home safe for defense that's or primary goal.

00:28:18.630 --> 00:28:28.230
Tom Baker: And then if you've never. Some people may be listening to this, I've never been in a in a fight to feeling like when I worked as a police officer and

00:28:28.650 --> 00:28:35.880
Tom Baker: When things were dangerous and it was a real fight on afterwards. Sometimes I found myself, I would throw up.

00:28:36.870 --> 00:28:50.370
Tom Baker: Yeah, you get these, uh, adrenaline surges. And it's very hectic and what you find is, is if you train and you prepare and you you

00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:59.880
Tom Baker: Engage in this type of training it and it's sort of inoculates you and then when you find yourself in these situations, you can think more clearly.

00:29:00.330 --> 00:29:12.450
Tom Baker: You can manage the adrenaline because you're not you're not using all of your energy you're using this you've learned to conserve your energy while they use their energy

00:29:12.870 --> 00:29:14.550
Evandro Nunes: And then like you say why. Right. Yes.

00:29:14.760 --> 00:29:20.280
Tom Baker: You can talk to them, you can say, okay, do you still want to fight you know this is not going good for you for

00:29:20.280 --> 00:29:21.270
Evandro Nunes: Why that happened on

00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:32.310
Evandro Nunes: Them you I want to in writing. Our assessment and once those, you should suit you have more ability to make these tournaments and take care of the situation more serious.

00:29:33.060 --> 00:29:45.900
Evandro Nunes: Than just chaotic. Now it's interesting that I want to share with you is that there's plenty of studies that I encourage officers or no officers, just to be familiar with that or just listen to. I'm going to say right now, which is this

00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:54.600
Evandro Nunes: We have in our brain beautiful complexity of anatomy inside of us right the brains of amazing part of her body.

00:29:55.050 --> 00:30:03.780
Evandro Nunes: And this is divided into many parts. I want to talk about choose specific parts of your brain, which is the amygdala, which is known as the repeatedly and brain or primal

00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:15.210
Evandro Nunes: Fight or flight or fight or flight instinct and we have or more modern more it evolved part of the brain, which is called a PFC or prefrontal cortex.

00:30:15.810 --> 00:30:30.570
Evandro Nunes: The prefrontal cortex is responsible for decision making for plan for the future for discernment for understanding threats engaging is very much like everything that we do as humans, different from the animals. This

00:30:31.050 --> 00:30:39.690
Evandro Nunes: Function of the prefrontal cortex know what happens physically in your body is that when people get into a

00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:50.640
Evandro Nunes: Situation in which they lose the sense of control that is the triggers important to emphasize that that people they lose control or the perception of control.

00:30:51.030 --> 00:31:02.460
Evandro Nunes: They lose access to the prefrontal cortex, which is an automatic response for the human body to protect the body. So the free frontal cortex gets shut down, shut out shut down.

00:31:03.450 --> 00:31:03.690
Tom Baker: And then

00:31:04.050 --> 00:31:13.680
Evandro Nunes: teen brain gets activated. That's why you see the same behavior in any kind of animal or any kind of human that is fighting for their lives.

00:31:14.340 --> 00:31:35.940
Evandro Nunes: It's, it's the reptilian brain responsive for the fight or flight mode which is abrupt movements explosion chaos more energy and which eventually leads to survival. In some cases, but in other cases leads to it leads to exhaustion. So what once you knows jujitsu

00:31:37.170 --> 00:31:51.990
Evandro Nunes: And once you know certain techniques to newly fight it threat. You can be in a fight with your prefrontal cortex activated because you never lost control or perception of control.

00:31:52.470 --> 00:32:03.240
Evandro Nunes: Isn't that fascinating. That's why we see we have video stone that's. This is so crazy. We have vetoes we have officers naturally and you know i'm not i'm not

00:32:03.990 --> 00:32:09.090
Evandro Nunes: Attacking the behavior, but the behaviors that they go to the scene and they go crazy on the suspect, just go to that.

00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:20.040
Evandro Nunes: A lot of energy trying to do this old mindset of overwhelming to suspect fairly so I don't judge it. I respect it, but we understand that he can be detrimental for ourselves as officers, so

00:32:21.540 --> 00:32:31.980
Evandro Nunes: We see officers, we have footage of two officers trying to, you know, over Alma suspect, then a third party officer arrives to the scene a little bit later.

00:32:32.850 --> 00:32:43.740
Evandro Nunes: With jujitsu training, they have the prefrontal cortex activated. He was watched in witness suspect we know prefrontal cortex, because he's been punched in attacked

00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:52.260
Evandro Nunes: Officers are nope no pre throat cortex, because they are, you know, but the best of their ability trying to overcome the person. So this third person arrives at the seed, say, Hey, guys.

00:32:53.040 --> 00:33:00.360
Evandro Nunes: Step back, I got this. Put a newness Tomek which is that they can contribute so or amount control a site mount in the literally

00:33:02.580 --> 00:33:13.620
Evandro Nunes: Push the, the other officers away with kind of the gentility with communication and then they take over of the fight, making safer for the officers that are involved in for the suspect

00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:26.580
Evandro Nunes: And you can only do that once you have your prefrontal cortex activated while you were fighting. That's why when I grapple or and you see some professional martial artist fighting. They look very calm and serene.

00:33:27.150 --> 00:33:42.660
Evandro Nunes: I can be like someone punching me on top of me and I'm can be hugging your body. But my mind my eyes look like this. Like I'm there. You can see that there that you don't see like eyes going all over the place, a sister, the serenity so much that when we watch them a snip.

00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:50.190
Evandro Nunes: People they don't train my trusty watching why why how his day so calm, how can be, they can be so cold and

00:33:50.790 --> 00:33:59.910
Evandro Nunes: In precise and so most beautiful to watch. Right. You say, Man, this person literally knows what they're doing. And that's primarily because of the pre record frontal cortex is activated.

00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:08.190
Evandro Nunes: And yes, because they do have a plan and they have a perception of control that for my forced me it's a no brainer. We must

00:34:08.370 --> 00:34:09.510
Evandro Nunes: We shared this with them.

00:34:09.510 --> 00:34:11.580
Evandro Nunes: Because you know it's

00:34:11.610 --> 00:34:14.010
Evandro Nunes: It's more so crazy because don't just

00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:16.050
Evandro Nunes: Some little more of that is

00:34:17.370 --> 00:34:31.080
Evandro Nunes: It's almost and I want to be very, you know, bold right now, but I want to say that the to keep the prefrontal cortex activated. It's almost more important than there's usually two techniques.

00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:50.130
Evandro Nunes: You understand to be in control yourself enough to fight. It's more important than is used to techniques. But the irony is that you cannot be with your preferrable cortex activated without these techniques because they are the ones that is loaded fight now save energy. You see, I'm saying

00:34:50.370 --> 00:34:53.700
Evandro Nunes: Absolutely have access to a part of your brain that other humans.

00:34:53.850 --> 00:34:56.640
Evandro Nunes: Do not have why the fight is priceless.

00:34:57.150 --> 00:34:57.420
Tom Baker: And it

00:34:57.810 --> 00:34:58.650
Evandro Nunes: Goes by science.

00:34:58.710 --> 00:35:00.300
Evandro Nunes: And an article six beautiful

00:35:00.690 --> 00:35:18.750
Tom Baker: Absolutely. And it goes, it's something you can build and it's also something that can go away over time. I know that I like when I train Jiu Jitsu regularly, I very much more calm, I can think I'm using the techniques and then if I take a

00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:24.600
Tom Baker: Lot of time off and I go back, I get. It's very, it's a panic, to have a person

00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:27.270
Evandro Nunes: Yes, it's Irish whiskey. Oh, it's a perishable skill.

00:35:27.570 --> 00:35:29.850
Tom Baker: And when someone is dominating you physically

00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:36.600
Tom Baker: You panic. But after time when I'm being dominant I'm okay. I think about that.

00:35:37.140 --> 00:35:38.790
Evandro Nunes: That's okay. I have you

00:35:39.060 --> 00:35:46.710
Tom Baker: And then the skill of those. And so it's important for officers, I think, to continue to train over long period of time.

00:35:46.710 --> 00:35:47.490
Tom Baker: Regularly

00:35:47.910 --> 00:36:04.800
Tom Baker: So that the skill is fresh and it's it's a very, it's a vital skill and one other thing you mentioned was was striking. Can you talk a little bit about how you incorporate striking into your training, what role. Yes, it should play for police officers.

00:36:05.610 --> 00:36:17.640
Evandro Nunes: 100% we usually to jujitsu this broad no for no strikes. That's what kind of people have this perception of jujitsu is a grappling martial art and there are no strikes that is not true.

00:36:18.210 --> 00:36:30.990
Evandro Nunes: There's jitsu that is no is no strikes is as more known as the sport jujitsu and he has any sport jujitsu there's no strikes. But when we talk about self defense and it real fighting scenarios. Amongst any

00:36:31.560 --> 00:36:42.480
Evandro Nunes: Human beings strikes out a big part of it. Now, what is the difference between these tracks that are usually know in his tracks in jujitsu we use YouTube

00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:52.830
Evandro Nunes: We don't want to rely on strikes for our dominance. The reason why is because if I can punch you, Tom. You can most likely punch me

00:36:53.910 --> 00:37:01.860
Evandro Nunes: If I mean punching distance to point you I'm punching. This has to be parched. Same with any kind of strikes. Okay, so I don't rely on that exchange.

00:37:02.190 --> 00:37:15.510
Evandro Nunes: But I do want to rely rely on strikes for distraction. We use very little strikes. But when we use. It's a purpose for strikes you to just track the person from whatever they're attempting to accomplish. For example,

00:37:16.200 --> 00:37:29.010
Evandro Nunes: I, I have the scenario where I mounted a suspect and then go for my firearm. We have some weapon retention making mechanism and techniques to prevent that from happening. And then once I applied them.

00:37:29.580 --> 00:37:42.510
Evandro Nunes: One motivation that I would do for people to let go of my gunny which I have the control off already with technique would be to deploy one or two or three strikes but purposely strikes in order to

00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:52.680
Evandro Nunes: Nullify that threat instead of knocking the personnel in causing more damage than I want to add them or damage at me because what people also don't realize

00:37:53.520 --> 00:37:58.950
Evandro Nunes: Is that by me striking. It's very exhaustive if you, you know what you're fighting on a punch people out

00:37:59.310 --> 00:38:06.480
Evandro Nunes: It's it's a lot of work. Not only that, you can be exhausted but also you can miss a punch and punch the floor and I broke your hand.

00:38:06.930 --> 00:38:17.640
Evandro Nunes: Or you punch. They took the head you points to your forehead, which is a very stronger ball than the bone of the hand and then you break your hand and if it keeps on going TO HAVE A BROKEN HAND. You see, I'm saying. Another example would be

00:38:18.030 --> 00:38:25.890
Evandro Nunes: There's some very common scenario enforcement officers, which is the suspect he's not fighting the officer, but he hide his arms, he lays down the floor.

00:38:26.010 --> 00:38:28.890
Evandro Nunes: The turtle. Yes. You like turtle up and like

00:38:29.100 --> 00:38:43.740
Evandro Nunes: No one going he's having his hands behind his back. So we have a amazing leverage based technique on how to remove that I'm from a with in front of your chest. We'd safety and scanning to make sure that there's an object or any kind of sharp

00:38:45.180 --> 00:38:51.720
Evandro Nunes: Object in the hands, but then once that is accomplished and the technique wants to be delivered. Sometimes it can hold their hands and can be a little

00:38:52.110 --> 00:39:02.400
Evandro Nunes: You know, challenging. So what do we do one strikes rule or even one pressure point. You see, we're not we, by no means look

00:39:03.060 --> 00:39:09.810
Evandro Nunes: separate ourselves from the techniques that cause pain and discomfort and immediate strikes the difference that we use that purposefully

00:39:10.050 --> 00:39:16.140
Evandro Nunes: We use the natural realm but you just try it, you accomplish your plan, no way to understand is that if strikes on my plan.

00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:22.860
Evandro Nunes: I have nothing else underneath it so I arrived to scene and boom, here's my plan strikes. Well, we do.

00:39:23.250 --> 00:39:35.880
Evandro Nunes: Is that we deliver a different plan, which is digital techniques. This is your plan, you are right here. Boom. Now sometimes when you cannot accomplish this you introduce a strikes. But once you do one or two strikes you accomplish your

00:39:37.110 --> 00:39:54.090
Evandro Nunes: Original plan. You see, which is much less stressful to have a plan of what I'm going to strike compliance out of you or I have a technique that I would try to accomplish and we may not accomplish both one strike two strikes distract the person because strikes. It can be very distracting.

00:39:54.690 --> 00:39:59.160
Evandro Nunes: Yeah, same for closing the distance. Right. You know, if the person's away.

00:39:59.700 --> 00:40:03.990
Evandro Nunes: Do it, should I just go and close a decent take the person that I should throw one strike or one kick

00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:12.060
Evandro Nunes: Into the person gets a little thrown off and then I find my closeness and once we're close we're safer from strikes from Dan and then we can do everything that we've been talking about, is that clear.

00:40:12.330 --> 00:40:27.720
Tom Baker: Yeah, so it's, it's something that you're not, you don't eliminate but you say it's something that should only be used as a as something to that's a tool that you're using to help move along your overall strategy of getting the person in handcuffs is what the goal is.

00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:28.440
Evandro Nunes: Exactly.

00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:35.190
Evandro Nunes: And once the person understands that song they use very little strikes because you took his I read so complete

00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:47.430
Evandro Nunes: That very rarely you need strikes. But nonetheless, we don't we don't we keep them in the room, but we don't even need them and how amazing it is that you don't need strikes is the same as a blue belt. I don't want

00:40:47.730 --> 00:40:55.410
Evandro Nunes: To go into street without with a belt. Now I'm going to have it and you have to go and habitation have whatever they carry, but I want them not never have to use it.

00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:56.220
Tom Baker: Right.

00:40:57.180 --> 00:41:05.730
Evandro Nunes: You see, if they need it. You use it. But if you never have to use. It's amazing. Same with strikes. I want you to know how to strike out your purposefully effective strike.

00:41:06.030 --> 00:41:14.880
Evandro Nunes: For distraction. But hopefully you never have to use it. And if you have you're going to use those tracks instead of the duty belt you see recreating up urgency let layers.

00:41:15.090 --> 00:41:22.110
Evandro Nunes: jujitsu strikes and then duty belt, instead of just fight blue belt or fight strikes you said

00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:31.110
Tom Baker: Yeah and there's always the top, there's always the time where it may be required to hit someone with a hammer or a brick and who knows if your life.

00:41:31.350 --> 00:41:33.600
Tom Baker: Is on the line anything it's

00:41:33.750 --> 00:41:41.730
Tom Baker: Like anything but the goal is, is that that not that that that officers don't go to the extreme of punches and hitting that they have

00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:42.810
Evandro Nunes: Necessary.

00:41:43.470 --> 00:41:47.280
Tom Baker: It is not the best tool to get to gain compliance, so

00:41:47.700 --> 00:41:57.990
Evandro Nunes: Now let's let let me change that Tom is the best to to gain compliance. If you don't have any other two. Right. Yes. You see, so I cannot say that it's not the best to

00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:09.960
Evandro Nunes: Because the person that only knows how to strike. That's their best to you. See, that's why we want to give officers more tools. So then they say, men instead of if you have a hammer, Tom. Everything's a nail.

00:42:09.990 --> 00:42:20.460
Evandro Nunes: Tech say screw you hammer it is true. So I want to give options to say, oh, they they pick and choose. And then, then that would be the best choice.

00:42:21.210 --> 00:42:25.590
Tom Baker: One thing I thought was interesting as you talked about. So with firearms.

00:42:26.700 --> 00:42:32.160
Tom Baker: A big thing is managing time which you already talked about in distance so managing managing distance

00:42:32.610 --> 00:42:46.380
Tom Baker: And with striking it's manage managing distance. Can you talk a little bit how maybe because people may not be intuitive, but how jujitsu is a tool to and then why that's how it can be used and why managing distance is important than grappling

00:42:47.430 --> 00:42:55.650
Evandro Nunes: Yes, a good sentence that will sum it up that perfectly is that whoever manages did distance manages the damage.

00:42:56.910 --> 00:43:00.480
Evandro Nunes: Okay, it's important to understand that in order for a strike.

00:43:01.680 --> 00:43:10.680
Evandro Nunes: To cause thing he has to be charged and the coiling of this Drake is distance creation.

00:43:11.700 --> 00:43:15.240
Evandro Nunes: If this is creation gives power to a strike.

00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:29.220
Evandro Nunes: My job is to do distance managing so this is never gets created which, as you mentioned, it's counterintuitive for most people, when they're being punched. They want to push the person away.

00:43:29.700 --> 00:43:47.580
Evandro Nunes: And get out and if you can do that successfully and get out fester. They can pursue you you win. The problem is that the person is really committed and you're trying to create space you are subconsciously helping them because you're creating space that they are utilizing to attack.

00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.580
Evandro Nunes: So what we do is you to. Which is counterintuitive.

00:43:50.790 --> 00:44:02.460
Evandro Nunes: But it's the best choice is to go in and be be close to the suspect into the person is attacking so they're even though they can punch him and what he's hugging my body right here, their head is right here.

00:44:03.120 --> 00:44:17.970
Evandro Nunes: Standing up, even though I can push them my punches are weak bunches punches instead of a full blown knockout punch you don't see people UFC or MMA being knocked down by a bicep curl like this. It's always a very

00:44:18.090 --> 00:44:18.690
Evandro Nunes: Well,

00:44:19.410 --> 00:44:29.940
Evandro Nunes: They liberated bunch of distance. So whoever controls the distance shows the damage and in order to be proficient in jujitsu, you want to be very aware of that, even if you want to get out of the fights.

00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:42.300
Evandro Nunes: Okay, let's say I want to run away from this person, person A is chasing person to be my goal is to run away, they're punching me immediate threat when I've distance, even if my goal is to run away. I want to go in

00:44:43.410 --> 00:44:50.460
Evandro Nunes: thrown off their tiny off their punchy. And then I do engage. It's magnificent and you talked a lot about that you, you know,

00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:53.910
Tom Baker: So it's so it's across everything really with

00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.680
Evandro Nunes: Employee everything finding on the

00:44:55.680 --> 00:44:57.180
Evandro Nunes: Ground everything

00:44:57.300 --> 00:44:59.610
Evandro Nunes: And we've managed to decent Spanish the damage.

00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:05.430
Tom Baker: With firearms as well, you know, knowing where you are, where you are in relation to the threats.

00:45:06.870 --> 00:45:07.650
Evandro Nunes: Exactly, yes.

00:45:07.740 --> 00:45:16.410
Tom Baker: It goes all the way from from from firearms all the way into when your hands are on a on a suspect that being aware of a distance and having those tools.

00:45:17.100 --> 00:45:22.350
Tom Baker: To yes adage that distance and know where you are when you're vulnerable.

00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:24.360
Evandro Nunes: Relationship to their body. Yes, and

00:45:24.600 --> 00:45:28.680
Evandro Nunes: To your point, he goes to app or retention as well because once I have full connection of your body.

00:45:29.250 --> 00:45:38.610
Evandro Nunes: There is this idea that my my duty belt is closer to them. Therefore, it's more gravel. I agree. And, but it but they did once I had full connection. I can, I can not only

00:45:39.060 --> 00:45:44.610
Evandro Nunes: Feel his intention going towards them into the belt where they can afflict proper connection techniques.

00:45:45.060 --> 00:45:50.730
Evandro Nunes: To prevent that from happening, effectively, and not just kind of grabbing arm and preventing with distance you see

00:45:51.150 --> 00:45:59.910
Evandro Nunes: My whole body and my whole intention will facilitate that. And the funny part of this time. Is that not funny. But the interesting things that you have to experience.

00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:05.280
Evandro Nunes: Once you feel it when we're talking about, about the connection because to talk about. It's very like, What do you mean

00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:14.970
Evandro Nunes: But once you, you know, you go to a class and expose yourself to Jiu Jitsu which was safe training environment that takes care of you. It's not like just Shark Tank and kill each other. And let's just be honest people up so

00:46:15.300 --> 00:46:23.490
Evandro Nunes: They can become tougher. That's not ego. You were there you witness is very much an exploration of studying it, and feeling what happens. And once you have a student feel like, oh,

00:46:23.910 --> 00:46:30.780
Evandro Nunes: I'm not spending that much energy my weapons are safe. This is interesting. And that's what hooks. Everyone is you too. And that's what suits.

00:46:31.770 --> 00:46:44.880
Evandro Nunes: That there's a crazy growing line regarding dissemination. Everyone wants to do Brazilian Gracie Jiu Jitsu because they have that feeling. And once they have that feeling, my man they're hooked and they understand efficiency and other life time practitioners

00:46:45.540 --> 00:46:57.120
Tom Baker: You just mentioned something I want to talk about too is like the feeling of a safe environment. Now I know someone who's listening to this, like the idea of going in a room with a bunch of people and having them grab you and

00:46:57.420 --> 00:47:14.220
Tom Baker: Learning these techniques can be a little intimidating, especially maybe if you're smaller maybe somewhat female or female officer. He told the two things about that. Should they be intimidated and then is this some can small people use these techniques effectively against

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:15.540
Evandro Nunes: Can you tell us a question.

00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:21.240
Evandro Nunes: 100% it's important that we remember the Elio Gracie.

00:47:22.410 --> 00:47:37.350
Evandro Nunes: Was 140 pounds la responsible for shifting the mindset of jujitsu from a from the old school Japanese jujitsu to survivability. Okay. And every technique that we show

00:47:38.370 --> 00:47:38.730
Evandro Nunes: In

00:47:39.930 --> 00:47:45.420
Evandro Nunes: Let's put this way, the class that we give us for the week you're in a smaller person.

00:47:46.890 --> 00:47:52.560
Evandro Nunes: The classes made for them now bigger people also benefit because there's always someone bigger than them.

00:47:52.710 --> 00:47:54.660
Evandro Nunes: Right. We talked about that but

00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:59.700
Evandro Nunes: The way that the beauty of Jiu Jitsu come from this, this

00:48:01.020 --> 00:48:02.040
Evandro Nunes: Try off.

00:48:03.180 --> 00:48:07.350
Evandro Nunes: Of human intelligence and leverage over brute strength.

00:48:08.730 --> 00:48:17.580
Evandro Nunes: And that's what is interesting. If you, if I give you if I say, Hey, Tom. Lift the car up, you cannot do it, but if I give other lever you can lift the car up

00:48:18.270 --> 00:48:34.590
Evandro Nunes: So technically jujitsu are based on leverage in timing and they're also based on metro body movements. I don't teach anything or I don't want to say teach, I want to say I don't share anything that is not

00:48:36.150 --> 00:48:45.450
Evandro Nunes: Universally possible for people to apply. I don't want to eat something that requires extra flexibility or request extra land.

00:48:46.200 --> 00:48:55.680
Evandro Nunes: Or strength I want something that my, my, my mom can apply my grandmother can apply. You see, because he respects three suppose up jujitsu which is since management.

00:48:56.130 --> 00:49:03.750
Evandro Nunes: Energy efficiency weapon retention for law enforcement and leverage based movements and not only the smaller officer can be

00:49:04.530 --> 00:49:11.610
Evandro Nunes: Can be open to the grid survival techniques class environment, but also often that never trained Jiu Jitsu before

00:49:12.150 --> 00:49:23.700
Evandro Nunes: People say, no, I have to know a little bit shorter know the classes, explain in a way that the person never have access to it will be able to fully understand there's no using terminologies.

00:49:24.570 --> 00:49:29.910
Evandro Nunes: That you don't know I assuming things that you should know doesn't exist. I'm going to treat you as

00:49:30.510 --> 00:49:39.240
Evandro Nunes: Who you are and the beauty of that is that the way we teach the program because the instructors are so qualified we teach in a way that

00:49:39.720 --> 00:49:48.840
Evandro Nunes: The brand new person will benefit, but also the black belts through benefits we have black belt brown belt purple belts, whatever rank the idea come to a class. And they're like, man.

00:49:49.380 --> 00:49:58.140
Evandro Nunes: These details are amazing. And that's the beauty of teaching the something proficiently which is you can be so

00:49:59.100 --> 00:50:05.370
Evandro Nunes: So open to the rest of the people that, no, no, no. I think that they don't get left behind. And it can also be complex.

00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:10.020
Evandro Nunes: To the sense that if people that I advanced in those huge they also get amazed by the techniques.

00:50:10.410 --> 00:50:19.350
Evandro Nunes: And we've covered a whole spectrum but no doubt if I'm, if I'm going to focus on someone. I'm going to focus on the smaller and mid brand new people, because it purple belt brown belt, they already know something

00:50:19.890 --> 00:50:27.540
Evandro Nunes: So if I have a choice of time. For example, and I had three details to share and to advanced and one simple. I'm going to shoot the simple one. You see,

00:50:27.930 --> 00:50:34.020
Evandro Nunes: If there's a time thing, because I'm more concerned about the person doesn't know anything then with a guy that knows something and it's already, we want to

00:50:34.380 --> 00:50:39.150
Evandro Nunes: It's like the king is only as strong as the weakest link. Correct. So

00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:48.300
Evandro Nunes: The class would have made for those people in a highly encourage them to come into few and just shoot experience. Don't. Don't believe me, go to a class. And just as people that being your class before

00:50:48.600 --> 00:50:53.700
Evandro Nunes: You see, and just asked him, how was the energy. Did you feel safe. You know, it was it they can eat a

00:50:55.230 --> 00:50:59.820
Evandro Nunes: Plausible true again someone bigger than you ask people, and they will tell you, and we're going to be ready for you.

00:51:00.420 --> 00:51:08.640
Tom Baker: And I found that the smaller people, the people who have been doing it a while the smaller they are, the better their technique is

00:51:08.940 --> 00:51:10.860
Evandro Nunes: Because they crazy tone.

00:51:10.950 --> 00:51:19.200
Tom Baker: Your moral they rely on the technique. Whereas, like me, I'm 250 60 pounds I muscle sometimes as

00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:20.760
Evandro Nunes: Small as either to learn

00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:26.070
Tom Baker: Yeah, so the it's the, the small people they learn much better good learning

00:51:27.180 --> 00:51:29.460
Evandro Nunes: Because it might take a little longer.

00:51:29.640 --> 00:51:37.950
Evandro Nunes: It might take a little longer for them to actually succeed. I guess a 20 pound person. You see, because they have to literally dialed in the technique.

00:51:38.250 --> 00:51:47.040
Evandro Nunes: But once they get in my mind it's better. Now you, Tom. You don't really need to learn the technique, kind of, quote unquote, right, like, yeah, grab it and push it and if you do a little wrong. It kind of works.

00:51:47.100 --> 00:51:48.300
Evandro Nunes: It works is

00:51:48.930 --> 00:51:50.490
Evandro Nunes: It easy. No way. Not good.

00:51:50.520 --> 00:51:54.390
Tom Baker: Not good. But, you know, but yeah. So if

00:51:55.230 --> 00:51:56.220
Evandro Nunes: You're correct. Yeah.

00:51:56.310 --> 00:52:07.590
Tom Baker: And I think that that's a testimony to that it that the techniques really work because when you do dial the men. I can go if someone is 155 pounds and they are

00:52:08.640 --> 00:52:19.560
Tom Baker: A black belt in judo and jujitsu I'm I can't just do what I wanted to making control me, they can, and I must yes strong athletic and I know I know jujitsu not just

00:52:20.220 --> 00:52:28.770
Tom Baker: But, but the this skill when the skills are fully developed, it's fascinating how effective for small people, they can be it's it's it's

00:52:29.190 --> 00:52:32.790
Evandro Nunes: It's crazy. It's unbelievable. I think there were these unbelievable right like man.

00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:38.610
Evandro Nunes: How can this person 150 pounds lighter than me. Can I can control me it's it's fascinating.

00:52:39.030 --> 00:52:43.860
Tom Baker: And size, size does still matter if the if the skill levels. The same sizes sizes batters

00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:49.680
Tom Baker: You can you talk a little bit of so. So if I say I'm a police officer in

00:52:50.760 --> 00:53:01.380
Tom Baker: Chicago and I want to, and I work on the defensive tactics team training officers and I want to go through your course. The first course he just taught me. Like, how long does it last and then

00:53:02.490 --> 00:53:02.880
Evandro Nunes: Yeah.

00:53:03.630 --> 00:53:05.640
Tom Baker: And what you do, what what they would expect.

00:53:07.050 --> 00:53:17.760
Evandro Nunes: Yeah, so the first step to do is to look for a training location that's close to you. Okay, so we have on mission slash GST

00:53:18.180 --> 00:53:25.590
Evandro Nunes: You've got to find all the training locations and where the the the courses will be hosted wants to find a location that is close to you.

00:53:25.890 --> 00:53:34.800
Evandro Nunes: The closest one right because people fly all over Wi Fi to close it location to you, and one that makes sense to your schedule you you're going to go to the class. And the way it works is like this.

00:53:36.120 --> 00:53:38.670
Evandro Nunes: We have the five days of training. Okay.

00:53:39.210 --> 00:53:47.940
Evandro Nunes: The three first days of training our focus on the techniques. We're going to talk a lot about how to control how to subdue how to survive.

00:53:48.180 --> 00:54:00.240
Evandro Nunes: Standing on the ground handcuffing techniques compliance techniques, it's going to be an amazing learning environment. We have 23 lessons and every lesson has a variation in within themselves which there'll be

00:54:00.690 --> 00:54:07.860
Evandro Nunes: Amazing variations for all those 23 lessons and then there's the last two days of it.

00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:16.560
Evandro Nunes: And this is something that people, most of the times they don't expect and I want to share that with you guys right now, which is the last two days. They're focused

00:54:17.250 --> 00:54:27.870
Evandro Nunes: On teaching methodologies, because we teach not end user officers. We teach officers that we teach other officers. We want to give them

00:54:28.710 --> 00:54:38.160
Evandro Nunes: teaching methodologies teaching techniques so they can deliver the technique more effectively to the end user officer. So the choice that we we found ourselves in.

00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:50.340
Evandro Nunes: Is that we could use the two less days for more Julie and then just trust that they would be able to rapidly replicating the submitted information on their own personal skill level of teacher teachers.

00:54:50.790 --> 00:54:58.710
Evandro Nunes: But what we do is that we trust that also is real keep training because we give them online access every class they learned during their week

00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:05.970
Evandro Nunes: You're going to have access to online video so you can review those techniques. I'm going to be teaching with you and Hannah online and you watch it.

00:55:06.210 --> 00:55:13.590
Evandro Nunes: And your resume before class and then you keep your friends, you know, department training amongst yourselves, why are you teaching techniques.

00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:23.310
Evandro Nunes: So I'm not too concerned about training time again I'm concerned about exposing them to options so they can choose five of those 23 techniques and they train them over and over again, you see.

00:55:23.580 --> 00:55:30.990
Evandro Nunes: And then they become proficient and a teacher better. So the two last days. Our focus on those teaching methodologies, which changed my life as a teacher.

00:55:31.200 --> 00:55:40.230
Evandro Nunes: And most of the time the feedback that we get these amazing is unbelievable that people appreciate it and a lot of dreaming repetition and muscle memory. And boy, and then we do some booty Bell drilling.

00:55:40.650 --> 00:55:53.040
Evandro Nunes: At the Friday so people have a grasp on how to actually utilize a training gun and to keep it going to have the suspect why wearing it. And we also do blindfold Julie.

00:55:53.220 --> 00:56:01.860
Evandro Nunes: Which is people blind eyes. And if you remember that. Now she's very interesting you close your eyes. You could be to simulate there there was maybe pepper spray blowback

00:56:02.160 --> 00:56:09.240
Evandro Nunes: Or just maybe scratch or a dark room, whatever it is that happens you find yourself not be able to see, but you should to doesn't care.

00:56:09.510 --> 00:56:14.910
Evandro Nunes: Jiu Jitsu steel is almost better to listen, that's kind of crazy. Once you close your eyes.

00:56:16.650 --> 00:56:24.240
Evandro Nunes: What's you deprive yourself from one sense, the other sense gets enhanced and what I have to tell that from all of our senses, sight is the less important one.

00:56:25.590 --> 00:56:35.580
Evandro Nunes: And also to get your experience there and you sweat a little bit and then we have a wrap up talk and then we go from there. And after that, even though after that, even though that five days training week is

00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:41.880
Evandro Nunes: Done the communications to really have a Facebook group in which other officers go there to interact them on themselves.

00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:49.590
Evandro Nunes: To share anything that they want to share or to talk about next potential training locations that we have. We also have the full support.

00:56:50.310 --> 00:56:55.440
Evandro Nunes: Migration diversity that we offer any questions that you guys have online Grissom versus there's a

00:56:56.010 --> 00:57:08.340
Evandro Nunes: Q AMP, a most common asking questions and there's an open blank for you to ask a question, whatever. Question is not answered that yet. You ask in a live instructor will answer that in the, in the next 2448 hours.

00:57:08.670 --> 00:57:20.640
Evandro Nunes: So it's a constant feedback towards any new scenario that the or any problem. If you have any trouble you send it as an email, we enter like me and you right now just connect with me. I remember I gave him my personal phone

00:57:21.060 --> 00:57:25.350
Evandro Nunes: One day I said, Man, if you ever need anything. Let me know no texting. I haven't his phone call. So

00:57:25.980 --> 00:57:33.360
Evandro Nunes: Because the mission is so real that doesn't enter this five days he starts with GST, but it doesn't end because now we have

00:57:34.170 --> 00:57:45.900
Evandro Nunes: Certified instructors all over the country shares you to and then they because they liked the class so much the same more instructors and then we keep wearing the same movement. I'm part of the same way that you are by sharing this video and everyone is part of the same

00:57:47.340 --> 00:57:49.800
Evandro Nunes: goal, which is to share defensive tactics, we'd like horsemen

00:57:50.790 --> 00:58:05.070
Tom Baker: And so they think they come to you. They get the they get the basic set of skills. They also get the methodology, how to how to teach it. They go back on the field, there's there's support there's additional training can come back for Level two training about for more training.

00:58:05.220 --> 00:58:17.010
Tom Baker: We also seek out a jujitsu school and pretty much anywhere in American out or continue to reinforce their skills and the goal is for this to grow. I'm about to put some links down in the bottom two

00:58:17.040 --> 00:58:18.210
Amazing your training.

00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:26.580
Tom Baker: And I just want to thank you so much for your time. Is there any. Is there any thing like sort of parting words or things you'd like to share

00:58:28.050 --> 00:58:32.400
Tom Baker: I know your time is valuable. I'm Johnny Ray, but any final thoughts on your part.

00:58:34.710 --> 00:58:35.160

00:58:38.070 --> 00:58:40.710
Evandro Nunes: If what's coming up for me right now is that

00:58:42.870 --> 00:58:51.870
Evandro Nunes: There is this I can touch briefly, but I just want to say this, there's this understanding the society have a perception.

00:58:52.680 --> 00:59:14.670
Evandro Nunes: Of what access acceptable use of force is in departments individually, they have different policies on what use of force should look like. Okay, so it's important that that people know that every department has different policies on user force and important the department's be aware

00:59:17.910 --> 00:59:31.200
Evandro Nunes: No side has an expectation of how short answers would be should be treating the each case by case not i'm not saying that they're the perceptual society is accurate. I'm sending to have an expectation. Okay.

00:59:31.620 --> 00:59:42.750
Evandro Nunes: So what happened is this side I had this expectation of how often should be trained and not knowing that the amount of time and money that is deployed for different train. Okay, but I have a whatever expectation

00:59:43.830 --> 00:59:46.620
Evandro Nunes: Officers have this amount of training. Okay, let's call it

00:59:48.120 --> 01:00:01.200
Evandro Nunes: And which allows them to apply a fair use of force, the distance between their expectation of society and what officers perform what is treat will cause conflict.

01:00:01.710 --> 01:00:08.010
Evandro Nunes: Okay, you've answered this A, B, and C and society doesn't like it. There's a little noise in the media and as a little conflict at

01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:16.350
Evandro Nunes: Two groups that I actually want only right they're working together, they want to help each other. They don't know how they're little, they're confused. So that separation happens

01:00:17.640 --> 01:00:30.210
Evandro Nunes: So what is our goal and what I'm why I'm telling you guys this to educate everyone right now and things that we are part of I want you educate society on how

01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:38.370
Evandro Nunes: Knowing the officer, they don't have that amount of training, they don't have that amount of time available in winning available potentially votes for defensive tactics.

01:00:38.940 --> 01:00:52.770
Evandro Nunes: Which that will raise their consciousness and make their, their expectation more accurate and at the same time we're training officers, because no doubt the officers can train more

01:00:53.610 --> 01:01:05.850
Evandro Nunes: And also, are some of them, most of them looking for an information and exposing them for growth. So with that, this is also happening there also performing closer to what society expects

01:01:06.570 --> 01:01:20.460
Evandro Nunes: I don't believe that ever. We have the expectation matching no police is a force, but I'm a strong believer and I can see that for a fact that we can reduce that gap you follow me, Tom.

01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:21.090
Tom Baker: Mm hmm.

01:01:21.270 --> 01:01:22.590
Evandro Nunes: So by society, having a

01:01:22.650 --> 01:01:29.400
Evandro Nunes: More accurate perception and expectation of authors are capable off and ox authors also walking their way which they're doing

01:01:29.910 --> 01:01:41.700
Evandro Nunes: To be more proficient. We can have a healthy relationship. Like I said, amongst two groups that want to help each other once you cooperate, but sometimes because of misinformation. Don't know how

01:01:42.240 --> 01:01:51.000
Evandro Nunes: And with that, I just have to say thank you for civilians for listening to this talk for officers for listening and for exposing themselves retraining.

01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:58.800
Evandro Nunes: And knowing that the majority of America is for law enforcement and the majority of law enforcement is for society.

01:01:59.160 --> 01:02:12.720
Evandro Nunes: You see, and we know that we can very much the same in even though there's some conflict. Sometimes and some some energy, the overall energy like Man, we are part of the same society, and we want to help each other at the best of our ability. So let's do that.

01:02:13.290 --> 01:02:19.620
Tom Baker: And I think it's a beautiful mission, you know, bringing those things closer together. It improves the trust that exists in society.

01:02:19.980 --> 01:02:31.260
Tom Baker: And that, in the end, it saves lives. So I think you're doing important work and I thank you very much for your time and put the links below, and have a great rest of your week. Thank you.

01:02:32.430 --> 01:02:34.020
Evandro Nunes: Thank you, Tom. Thank you very much.